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Lunartic

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Oct 31 13 11:10 PM

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From the Halloween Hackup Tournament thread.

[quote]I have to say that I'm hugely disappointed in this tournament so far.
Round 1 took 57 hours to complete and we are currently at 67 hours in Round 2, which looks likely to stretch out to around 80 hours. We're going to have to come up with some better guidelines for taking part in these because as I've said a couple of times, that's total BS. If you know you've got an assignment due, a wedding to go to and/or granny is coming around to stay for the weekend etc. don't enter the tournament!

Any ideas here on how we can address / manage / police this issue? Or do you think it isn't a problem etc.?

I have some of my own but would prefer to see what you all have to say about it first.

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Matt33

Posts: 344 Impossible King

#1 [url]

Nov 1 13 12:57 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

I'll throw out an idea, although I'm unsure how it would work within Brackelope. We have a sort of East vs West setup. Only players in the West are matched up against each other and same for the East. That plays out until it is no longer fair for one side (having more people) and it becomes a mixed bag again like it is now. Won't work for the whole tournament, but will speed up early rounds.

For example, if there are 8 players in the West and 4 players in the East, the two sides will merge when there are 2 players remaining in the West and 1 in the East (for the third round).

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Lunartic

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#2 [url]

Nov 1 13 1:25 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Matt33 wrote:
I'll throw out an idea, although I'm unsure how it would work within Brackelope. We have a sort of East vs West setup. Only players in the West are matched up against each other and same for the East. That plays out until it is no longer fair for one side (having more people) and it becomes a mixed bag again like it is now. Won't work for the whole tournament, but will speed up early rounds.

For example, if there are 8 players in the West and 4 players in the East, the two sides will merge when there are 2 players remaining in the West and 1 in the East (for the third round).


That makes a lot of sense but would be a nightmare to manage and mean going back to notes on paper (there's no such flexibility in any app I've come across), which I certainly don't have any interest in doing.

1shark1 wrote:
Maybe you should consider giving a bit more time for these rounds, I mean sometimes it's not that easy to sync up with your opponents and yea, people can be busy on some days, but that's stupid not to take part in large tournament just cause I could be busy one day...

Also I don't see any real reason to rush it this way. even if you want to start another tournament next month, there is still plenty of time.

3 days per round sounds good for me, it gives people enough time to be busy and still play the match. (imo)


3 days per round means tournaments would likely drag out for over 2 weeks and it's hard enough trying to get people synced up and keeping people interested in these over a few days. A tourney lasting weeks just sounds like more opponents who want to play but get jerked around waiting for days, no shows, disqualifications and just a general pain in the butt for whoever is trying to manage them. If everybody wants to run with this sort of setup however, then other people are going to have to step and to run them because I don't have the patience to run a dragged out tournament every month.

I thought I had some ideas but I thought them through again and came up blank.

"Wow man. You're the greatest kangaroo blooded ninja I've ever cyber met."
"a lot of strange people playing this game but you're a special one..."
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Matt33

Posts: 344 Impossible King

#3 [url]

Nov 1 13 1:41 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Okay, so as it stands the only thing we could introduce is a DQ for the match-starter if they fail to send the match within 24 hours.

If someone else wants to step up to run the draws for my East/West idea, with Lunartic still doing the initial rules posts for the tournaments and trophy design (the best part!), we could introduce that as well. But it would be great if someone could come up with a better solution.

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Lunartic

Posts: 3,609 Blue Thumbs Gaming

#4 [url]

Nov 1 13 2:10 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Matt33 wrote:
Okay, so as it stands the only thing we could introduce is a DQ for the match-starter if they fail to send the match within 24 hours.

Rattling the marbles around in my brain a bit more I've come up with the following.

I think 24hrs is too generous. The start time and date is clearly given well in advance and I even provide a link to work out what that is no matter where in the world you live. If people have any interest in playing in these then you'd think they'd at the very least keep that in mind, check in here regularly leading up to the start, or put a reminder on their phone or something. 24hrs is however the easiest to manage so I'm OK with it.

The biggest problem that I see is a lack of information / communication between opponents and the tournament manager and as you know I'm not exactly Mr Patience. For these to continue I think we all need to be a bit more diligent and the match starter needs to take on a greater role in the tournament threads.

Future tournaments could work something like this:

PRE-TOURNAMENT
- Tournaments get set up as per usual with the starting date and time displayed.
- When you post to enter the tournament you also have to confirm that you've worked out what the start time and date is for you and that you've put a reminder about it on your phone.

TOURNAMENT
- Matches have to be started within 24hrs of All Rounds Starting or else the designated match starter is disqualified from the entire tournament and blacklisted from the next tournament (unless they have some RL issue that popped up).
- The match starter has to post status updates for the entire match as it unfolds at the end of each turn sequence. That way everybody can follow where everybody else is at.
- Matches have to be completed ASAP. I know for a fact that some people use stalling tactics and this will be exposed by the point above. If someone continues to be a match staler without explanation, they're blacklisted.

Basically if you enter a tournament you have to have the time available to play in the tournament in a timely maner and to check into the tournamanent thread regularly to keep up to speed with events.

I fully appreciate that some people don't have the time, or possibly the interest in being so involved here in the forums and I fully respect that but do the other entrants who do/are a favour and don't enter.

Like I've said a bunch of times I'd rather play these regularly with a handful of people who are keen to play, rather than have them drag out with a bunch who are in them halfheartedly because that angle is quickly becoming a pain in the arrse and tournaments are no longer fun for me.

"Wow man. You're the greatest kangaroo blooded ninja I've ever cyber met."
"a lot of strange people playing this game but you're a special one..."
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#5 [url]

Nov 1 13 2:20 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

some notes:

okay, no more time for matches, I'm usually fine with that

what about groups + play-offs
the matches in groups could be played simultenously and the play-offs could be for best 4 (8)
probably could be finished up in a week

12 hours for match start should be fine

blacklisting for one dq seems a bit harsch

I still think you have to give at least 2 days to play the match

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Lunartic

Posts: 3,609 Blue Thumbs Gaming

#6 [url]

Nov 1 13 2:30 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Yeah 12 hours for a match start deadline was what I had in mind but the point you made is correct and I can't police the rule because that would be 11am for me and I can't always commit that time away from work.

I think blacklisting for 1 tournament for failing to start the match isn't being too harsh. If you want to play, you'll play and if something RL pops up, you'll let us know about it later and it'll be lifted of course.

Yeah I think if we can tighten up the match starting schedules and get people to be a bit more involved then 48hrs should be enough to get matches finished. The biggest thing is keeping us up to speed with what's going on with you and your match. If something pops up and you can't play for a day etc. just let us know and we'll work around it. This not knowing what the hell is going on and scrambling to PM people, track them down on twitter etc. has to end for these to continue. It won't be perfect of course but it should improve things substantially.

"Wow man. You're the greatest kangaroo blooded ninja I've ever cyber met."
"a lot of strange people playing this game but you're a special one..."
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#7 [url]

Nov 1 13 2:43 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

I think yellow/red card system is better, but it does nott really matter if you could reasonably excuse yourself.

The real advantage of groups I proposed (inspired by 1221 tournaments ) is you could give people more time to play their matches, but they'd play more in that time...you won't get bored as you have to play a bit more and people can be busy for one day aswell.
For example for 16 people, 4 groups of 4 with first (possibly second) places moving to play-offs.
It also partialy eliminates unlucky draw.

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Lunartic

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#8 [url]

Nov 1 13 2:46 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

1shark1 wrote:
The real advantage of groups I proposed (inspired by 1221 tournaments ) is you could give people more time to play their matches, but they'd play more in that time...you won't get bored as you have to play a bit more and people can be busy for one day aswell.
For example for 16 people, 4 groups of 4 with first (possibly second) places moving to play-offs.
It also partialy eliminates unlucky draw.

I really like that idea but have no idea how to go about it that doesn't involve a lot of extra time and paper shuffling for the tournament manager. (?)

"Wow man. You're the greatest kangaroo blooded ninja I've ever cyber met."
"a lot of strange people playing this game but you're a special one..."
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#11 [url]

Nov 1 13 3:58 AM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Something like a 16 man tourney with 4 groups of 4 (each person plays concurrent 3 group matches for seeding) with top 8 (or even 16) advancing to a single knockout playoff bracket wouldn't be too tough, I could probably manage a bracket like that. Of course if we end up with like 19 or 23, etc. it would make it tougher.

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1221

Posts: 524 Time Lord

#12 [url]

Nov 1 13 1:07 PM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

Tournaments like that are easy to run with the software I use (Tio Pro) but Lunartic is looking for a mobile app I believe.

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Lunartic

Posts: 3,609 Blue Thumbs Gaming

#13 [url]

Nov 1 13 1:11 PM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

1221 wrote:
Tournaments like that are easy to run with the software I use (Tio Pro) but Lunartic is looking for a mobile app I believe.

Yep, it has to run on my iPad or else it's of no (practical) use to me unfortunately.

"Wow man. You're the greatest kangaroo blooded ninja I've ever cyber met."
"a lot of strange people playing this game but you're a special one..."
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#14 [url]

Nov 1 13 4:38 PM

Re: Tournament Guidlines / Rules Discussion

1221 wrote:
Tournaments like that are easy to run with the software I use (Tio Pro) but Lunartic is looking for a mobile app I believe.


I was saying I could handle the bracketing, I'm not restricted to iOS software. It wouldn't have the real-time webpage with matches, but it could be done. Just a suggestion.

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